It’s about flow of conversation.
Sewing machine still sitting idle, the handwheel hasn’t arrived from my manufacturer yet.
In the end, I started sourcing handwheels from other 810 series manufacturers. I ordered four different types, let’s see what turns up first and fits.
Anyway. I had some customers come by this week and it got me thinking.
Selling isn’t just ‘selling’.
The first thing that I do when meeting potential customers is to look at their footwear. This immediately gives me a feel of where to start the conversation.
I base it partly on their boot or shoe experience, but more importantly, their personality.
As a recap, remember that the Malaysian market is not a high quality footwear market. The general public are still maturing their knowledge in this regard.
Because of this, there have been times when I actively steer people away from purchasing, because after talking to them, I know that they’re not ready for a product which ages, changes colour and shape, looks imperfect and generally becomes uglier with time.
According to ‘normal’ people standards that is.
Tailoring the discussion for the customer base.
As I’ve mentioned many times already, my normal customer here in Malaysia is not a boot nerd.
And with the data collected through time, I now have the typical profile of the Outstation customer:
- Late 20’s to early 30’s. Male.
- Junior management role, but not necessarily white collar.
- Moving away from wearing sneakers daily.
- Not yet well informed about quality footwear, but open to listening.
- Is willing to stretch their budget if they perceive there is quality to the product.
You could summarise this profile by saying that Outstation customers are young guys who are starting to mature, developing their own style and starting to look for higher quality of their own choice, not simply following brands or trends.
Again, these observations are based on my average customer profile – who are ‘normal’ people. Not boot nerds and not belonging to any particular fashion sub-culture.
It starts with a simple question.
Back to the point though. When I look at what customers are wearing on their feet, I start to get a feel on where to begin.
After they’ve browsed through the boot range and picked out what they’re looking for (usually pre-decided through online channels), this is when I’ll ask the first question.
‘Have you ever owned a product like this before?’
To which the answer most often received is, ‘…not really’.
The level 1 decision tree is unlocked.
The next series of conversation nodes now begin.
By this time, I’ve a reasonable gauge on the personality of the individual, as whilst they’re browsing, they’re usually asking me general questions about the product.
As I answer them, I tend to shift the focus of my answers in order to test whether their personality is:
- Technically minded.
- Emotionally inclined.
- Rational and/or logical in decision making.
- Whatever combination of the above that make their ears prick up.
And this is where I begin the real ‘sales’ conversation, tailored for who they are.
‘Have you ever owned a product like this before?’
‘…not really’.
Technical people love details.
For the technically minded, the conversation heads towards describing stitchdown construction specifics and how it differs from cemented footwear.
If I can feel that they’re really interested, the conversation can be directed towards other forms of construction methods such as handwelting, as it often leads to potential upselling later.
Emotional people want a connection.
For the emotionally minded, the conversation direction is very different. It focuses on the heritage of the craft, the history. How a wedge sole was invented for a specific purpose – the romanticisation of past times.
A focus on leather feel, touch, and how it ages. This often leads to questions about leather types, origins and more premium leather tanneries. Again, exploring potential for upselling later.
Logical people are the simplest to talk to.
For rational or logical people the conversation focuses on the recraftability of the build. Leaning towards the practical cost per wear over the years.
For those who are emotionally inclined in their rationality, the point revolves around continuing the longevity and personal attachment to a pair of boots.
Logic and rationality can differ depending on perspective. So I try to focus on what appeals to that particular individual.
Stop. Breathe. Walk away.
Regardless of direction that the conversation flows in, I tend not to bombard people with information. It simply becomes jargon that can make them zone out or feel intimidated by the product.
In one ear and out the other. You can see their eyes glaze over when this happens.
Heritage bootmaking is already somewhat a gatekept world; the last thing I want to do is scare more people away.
That’s a hot topic for another day though.
Level 2 decision tree now unlocked.
At this point I give space for the customer to reflect on whatever information they’ve absorbed. I’ll let them browse alone whilst I head back to the bench.
After a few minutes, they’ll usually start asking their next set of questions.
This either validates my assumption on their personality type, allowing me to double down on the conversation direction, or alternatively, backtrack if I’d misread them.
For the average person, by this point they’re satisfied. The most common question then asked is:
‘How do I care for them?’
‘Where can I go to resole them?’
‘How long will they last for?’
If you’re already a boot nerd, you’ll know the answer to these questions.
The average person doesn’t. So I explain it all to them.
Level 3. Close it out with expectation management.
I tend to close the conversation with a heavy dose of expectation management about the behaviour of heritage boots.
Welt peeling, patina development, shape and fit changing with time. All the good things that boot nerds love, but normal people consider ugly.
This is to make sure that when it does happen, people don’t complain their boots are defective, or that I didn’t warn them.
In a developing market for heritage products, heavy emphasis on expectation management and education is key, otherwise online complaints can totally destroy a market before it develops properly.
Shoutout to the Stitchdown patina thunderdome and their many pictures of aged boots. It gives me plenty of content to demonstrate to people what a boot looks like with various levels of use.
At this point the customer begins to understand that the heritage boot world is about an appreciation of what time does to a material.
The passage of time defines beauty, as opposed to how it looks at the point of purchase.
The ‘informed’ customers make my job easier.
Before I forget, let’s backtrack a little. The other leg of the level 1 decision tree.
‘Have you ever owned a product like this before?’
‘I have a few pairs of Red Wing boots’.
Compared to the customer that’s never owned heritage footwear before, the conversation now becomes easier for me.
But still not as easy as you may think.
And the reason is simple. Many people in Malaysia have a love for branded boots. However this is often simply because of the branding, not because they have any desire or notion of a certain quality.
So it’s important to still gauge what they know in order to understand them further, leading again to the amount of expectation management that I need to perform.
I’ve had people show up to my workshop wearing fake Red Wing boots, where after talking to them I could tell they loved the brand. Unfortunately though, they didn’t have any knowledge of the product, so simply bought a pair online at a price point suitable for them.
Interestingly, almost all the people who fall into the ‘I have a few pairs of Red Wing boots’ have been those that just love the brand, for the brand.
Again, it’s very typical in the brand centric culture that exists in Asia.
True boot nerds are few and far between.
I’m yet to find any boot nerd here that has done their research on leather quality, construction methods and the like. This very much differs from more developed markets, where perhaps there are stronger, more informed boot subcultures.
As a slight side track, you could say that the boot nerd culture in Malaysia isn’t actually a boot nerd culture, but rather, a boot brand nerd culture.
This is evident in the massive second hand market for Red Wing, Timberland and other heritage boots. They get imported in 40 foot containers and sold onwards to all manner of small shops.
The large majority of these boots are in terrible condition, or simply fake. Interestingly enough, they’re also not particularly affordable either.
Closing the loop by mythbusting.
For most customers, I usually wrap up the conversation by steering them towards hidden material quality. Particularly the heel counter and insole.
I show them the differences that celastic, cardboard and leatherboard have compared to real leather. They touch and feel the material, usually resulting in them being shocked.
This exercise tends to grow the knowledge that people have no exposure to; giving them the understanding that their favourite brands may not necessarily be the best quality at that price point.
But again, it depends on whether the personality of the individual is interested in the technicalities, or whether they’re so emotionally tied to their brand that they don’t want to believe me.
That often leads me to wonder, if they don’t believe me, a Bootmaker, then I have no idea who they will believe.
For some brand loyalists, I really think even God him or herself wouldn’t be able to change their minds.
I’m not a salesman, because I don’t need to be.
My boots and my brand reflect my personality. Straightforward, like it or leave it.
If people like the product and can convince themselves they want it, then great. If not, that’s totally fine.
Perhaps this very un-salesy approach will lead to bankruptcy in 5 years, who knows.
My general philosophy is that if my customer is informed, they’ll already know what a boot of a certain quality offers, and if not, it’s my job to inform them in a way that they can digest. And then the ball is in their court.
To put it simply, I try to nudge people along a path of information which can appeal to their personality and values.
And that hopefully, gives them the best chance to build an attachment to a pair of Outstation boots.
